Okay, so as soon as Mr. Hugh Mannitee invented the concept of money, people will do whatever they can do grab some dosh. And its a natural thing to want to accumulate things because things often mean power, and so we're biologically wired to want to be the most powerful. The strongest. The 'alpha'. This psychology, obviously, does not leave Harpg as an exception. I'm going to link you to a poll now because I'm assuming you're already sitting at your computer. But if you're eating or drinking and don't want to choke, put it down.
This poll basically alerts people to the fact that you can now purchase custom imports of mutation Nordanners for 500USD. *Coughsplutterwhat* Now before I get hate mail/flamed etc, this person can do whatever they want - thats their choice as an artist and I'm not going to try to convince them to change what they do. It's not her as an artist I'm trying to convince - its you, as a person, who is thinking of spending 500USD on a design.
For 500USD, you can adopt a horse, cat, dog, probably all at once. You can donate to a rescue shelter. You can potentially save a horse from slaughter. With $500, you can sponser a child in third world countries for 14 Months. If you want to get more materialistic, you can buy a decent second hand Bates saddle - just have a look, they're out there. You can buy a brand new bridle, chaps, jodphurs, name it. A decent European standard helmet. You can buy a Windsor and Newton water colour pallette - nearly two! - you could buy a new wacom tablet. You could legally purchase Adobe Photoshop. I can even send you quotes of this stuff. You can buy 16 months premiums, if you really want to. You could comission an artist to paint something traditional, tangible, on canvas. An artist that would spend hours upon hours pouring their love, skill and persistence into an artwork. And you want to spend 500USD on a ... on a design?
I feel like I need to make a Harpg Guide to Priorities: Feat. Normal People. Please. Think about 500USD and the way it can change lives, the way it should possibly be used. Don't waste your money on a fake pixel horse when you could be giving a real one, with history and quirks and talents a second chance. Don't spend your money on something totally intangible when you could change a child's life - a child that has fears, aspirations and favourite games, just like you.
For crying out loud, Harpg is fun, but its not real. Get off the computer and go experience something outside. What is going on through your heads?
These people obviously do not have bills... where I live that could buy you a good QH/Paint with papers! That's what I paid for my QH Gelding. Nothing against Dane because well... if people would pay me that much for something I would sure as hell do it too LOL but some of these people have gotten out of hand.
THANK YOU! They are pixels...not real living, breathing, moving things. IF someone wants 500USD...or whatever...why cant they go earn it themselves. I mean really? And if someone else...wants to spend 500USD on a design?! have no words for that. That wasnt pointed towards anyone...so yeah
I honestly cannot believe that anyone would spend that kind of money on a design. They'll regret it. And does she really deserve to get thousands of dollars just because she... I don't even know what she did. Drew some horses? Invented a neat fantasy breed? Doesn't make any sense to me. You could save someone's life for that much money. Or a horse or dog or cat or anyone- doesn't that seem like a much more selfless and honorable thing to do?
I think what amazes me is how much art I could get for $500. I paid an artist I love to draw me some simple scenes of one of my characters for about $20 a picture. For $500, I could get 25 simple pictures from her, all original and exactly what I want.
Or, for $0, I could draw my own character who looks exactly like I want and do whatever I want with it, no restrictions and no oversight.
It's totally the artist's choice to charge that much -- in fact, that's not even what wows me, because she reasons it out why it costs that much. That's fine. It's that people might pay it that raises my eyebrows.
I've spent real money on games like Wajas.com. In some cases, more money than a lot of people might be okay with for pixels. But at the end of that, it is actually an 'product', a pet I can breed and sell the offspring of in a coded and actualized online world. HARPG is all in our imaginations. I just have a hard time spending money on something (that isn't even an original piece of special art) that is pretty much just giving you leave to use your imagination.
oh lets not forget... you don't even have full control of this "design" you're buying for said amount of money. it can be taken away at any time if you piss her off xD or if you don't follow one of 1 million nonsensical rules.
I find the idea of spending true, physical money on anything of a roleplay nature is utterly mad. $500 is a very large amount of money.. the thought of throwing it away (yess, throwing it away) on a design of a pixelated, drawn horse? Can anyone please give me a true answer as to WHY someone would use real currency for something like that?
Now, I understand that what I said can be taken as either hate or opinion, but I can assure you I have nothing against Dane- just the whole idea of this. $500 is a huge amount of money to me.. I, along with everyone else who works, work hard for money to call your own. But that bring sus to another aspect I have seen been brought up on multiple occasions. It is their money, so don't they have the right to spend it in whatever form they wish to? Yes, of course they do. But is it the right, smart, decision.. to be spending $500 dollars that could be going towards your rent, mortgage, bills, emergency fund, future investments?
Of course the the use of real money now is no shock, as mentioned already by someone. I know nearly all 'popular' sim games involve the use of money at SOME POINT, whether it stops you at a certain level saying you must pay to continue. Or whether you must pay to improve your game, and get on top,being better than others. But Ijust do not understand WHY more and more 'fun' hobbies are seeming to get.. corrupted, in a sense. I see the game of HARPG as a harmless way to have fun, draw, and talk to many wonderful people. Why does it have to involve REAL currency? Not all fun and desires need to be bought.
Why people would spend that much money on a design is beyond me. I personally think this is a good way to keep people from buying mutations, since they are always pestering her about them. But 500 USD seems like far too much.
Oh, I'd also like to add that my friend was killed at 13 by "just a $500" horse...the horse was also a former race horse, had undisclosed back problems that we didn't know about until it was too late. My friend is dead because her mother tried to be a "selfless" individual and rescue these poor souls (plus dealing with advanced Parkinson's, and adopting eight kids) and her only biological daughter was killed trying to ride one of the ones she adopted for $500 from a race horse retraining program.
Uh, that's not the fault of the horse. That's lack of responsibility on the mothers part. Just like buying a car, when you buy a horse, you should have a history on it, have someone test drive it, and be a knowledgeable person. In no way would a responsible horse trainer or owner put a 13 year old on a OTT thoroughbred before having it evaluated and retrained. There's people that have died riding horses who cost hundreds and thousands of dollars. Just some food for thought there.
I know it's not the horse's fault. It's already been clarified by another user.
However, there are things that could have been prevented in this situation, yes. But as I explained, it happened, the person is dead, it was extremely traumatizing for me, and I do not want to adopt an OTT or rescue horse again. I really don't.
Rescues are rescues for a reason...someone abused thm or damaged them to the point where they need to be rehabilitated. Some horses, depending on training and conditioning, are better off to ride than others. For example physical therapy horses are better to ride because they are trained and conditioned a certain way.
And a "trained" horse can be just as damaged by a rider or trainer that thinks they know what they are doing. Just because a horse is valued at $100,000 doesn't mean they are any less abused or damaged then a rescue/adoption. It's generalizing, which is stereotyping. You're entitled to your own way of grieving, however just like how you don't want people thinking a horse is only going to cost you $500, I don't want people being misguided to an animals value just because it's a "rescue".
THANK you! People are hating on rescue horses too damn much, or "cheap" horses for that matter anyhow. I've worked with rescue horses more than well-trained horses from professionals; often-times the horse is just so grateful to be happy and comfortable again, they'll do whatever you ask of them. It all depends on the horse's past, their temperament and the people handling them. There are some rescues that are just amazing. Not all of them, of course, but... I think you get my point.
Just because people can rescue animals, doesn't mean they should. Some people, no matter how good their intentions, just don't know what they are doing. That said, some people just don't know what they are talking about as well.
Horses are very uncertain creatures...i used to ride a 23 year old arabian (which doesnt prove anything in this since they have that high spirit...til death xD) ...mellow as can be...but if something happened that i didnt see...she could spook and become a 'yearling' again. Personal Experience I have an OTT Thoroughbred, he was abused, long hooves, skinny (i mean like hips and spine and ribs jutting out even under his skin). Had him for 3 years, hasnt been ridden for probably longer then that, last summer...i decided to buck up and get on him...mind you he is a TB...and getting his wits and spirit back...not ridden for more then 3 years...some would say im stupid. But to build muscle you have to break it down...hence why i am riding him. He saddles and bridles like nothing ever happened to him. I get on him and he gets a little jumpy but not bad..no bad enough to where i had to get off, took him through around the cornfield..and he did perfect. Like i said its the horse...its how the horse takes its experience...that OTT Thoroughbred Runewing was probably talking about...probably had a bad, tramatizing experience some time. Horses can remember many things...maybe something that 13 year old was wearing...reminded it of a time it hated like a ride. Thats me...and what i think.
Not to belittle your friend's death my any means, but accidents happen when you're working with or around horses. It's part of the risks we take to do what we do, and it's not the horse's fault nor the mother's fault for what happened.
With that said, I am very sorry to hear about the loss of your friend.
Yes, accidents happen. But this horse, from racing, got a permanent back condition and because of that killed my friend. Nothing would have changed that and it was only a matter of time before someone got hurt/killed riding that horse. (Her mother was compassionate enough not to put the horse down by the way...she ended up sending it to become a pack horse in Colorado, it will never be ridden again.)
It's just very hard on me because I was the last person to film/photograph her being alive...it's very hard as well to try and help take care of her mother. It's personally why I don't rescue those sorts of horses - race hores - anymore because if you don't know of a prexisting condition, or even their temperament, you put yourself in great danger.
As I said in my previous post, don't be angry at the horse. Be angry at the rescue who didn't catch what should have been caught. The horse didn't kill your friend out of malice. It was a tragic accident that should have been preventable had someone paid attention.
It isn't just race horses, but ANY horse that you have to be careful around. My Paint mare is the most gentle and docile horse that I've ever had the pleasure of working with and owning...but at the end of the day, she is a horse. She's 1000 lbs of prey animal with strong instincts who will react accordingly to whatever circumstance she's presented with. While I can hope that all the years of training that I've put into her will give her the tools to deal with something in a less explosive manner, I will never expect her to be anything else other than a horse.
As I said, I am deeply sorry for the loss of your friend. I know that you and her mother will never stop missing her, but I hope that time will ease some of the pain that you obviously still feel.
Yes, I understand all this. Yet I still wouldn't expect my own horse to roll over and cause me serious injury or death.
Thank you anyways for your condolences. Unfortunately the circumstance is probably something that will stay with me for the rest of my life, along with those who were there. It's something that tore apart my friends and partly caused me to stop horseback riding, especially after I saw more people I know get seriously injured from horseback riding. Worst of all, like you said, it could have been prevented by the rescue adopting out the horse (unless the mother adopted/bought him straight from the racetrack).
Accidents happen, sadly. I've broken my knee twice while horseback riding (the first time was an accident when the horse slipped and fell at a gallop, and the second was a training accident when the horse I was working with spooked when a rabbit bolted between her legs), broken my ribs, broken my ankle, had a few concussions and blackeyes...I've accepted the risks injury and potential death as a possibility in my chosen hobby and career. But that doesn't mean that it won't hurt myself or my family any less if something happens to me. It's a catch-22. But I still ride, train horses, and give riding lessons because it's what I love.
I hope you don't think that I'm lecturing you. I'm really trying to not come across that way, and I apologize if I do. It just breaks my heart when I hear about people giving up something that they loved after a tragedy.
It's fine. Horses tend to be a very personal and impassioned thing for many people. Including me, since my friend died from it and it's had a pretty large ripple effect. People will continue to horseback ride, but for me personally it's just not something I want to get into for a few years at least. Even so it would have to be someplace wholly new.
I am sick and tired of people saying "you could adopt a horse" for $500. I'm sorry but these people need to learn the hard truth about adopting and what it really means to adopt a horse.
You don't know what it's like unless you've been there. I've spent over $10,000 on my "just $500" horse over three years, if not more, only to adopt him out again. On top of that I also adopted a poor filly who died, I had to deal with thousands in intensive care vet bills and dealing with her dead body. I poured so much blood, sweat and tears into these two horses for little to nothing. I could barely ride the former because he was a race horse and needed far more money and time in training than I could afford.
The "adopt a horse for just $500" is a sham, unless you want to spend tens of thousands of dollars on rehabilitating said horse - vet bills, fees, etc. I'm sorry but that's the bare truth. Please stop saying "$500 would buy a horse" - in some circumstances, yes - usually a poor quality [in terms of breeding] "fixer upper" that takes thousands of dollars pumped into it to make it more rideable, increase its value, etc.
I am not rich - I have worked for years with many, many of these horses and a horse trainer who would buy "fixer uppers" for cheap and try to retrain them, turn them around and sell them for a profit.
If you really want to buy a horse - save your money and buy one for a few thousand dollars. Give your love to a well-worn older, retired lesson horse who is not only very rideable, but in most cases impeccably trained and usually loveable/sweet. There are far too few buyers for these "golden oldies" than I would like to see. Or, lease a horse.
- From someone who has ridden and helped trained/show horses for 14 years
You're just splitting hairs, after reading you're responses to other people. Yes, there are upkeep costs. Just like buying anything else in this world. But really at this point after your other responses with people, it seems you just want to argue and nit-pick, and in doing so are missing the point of the journal.
Why do you even care? I write what I want to write, and this isn't some debate thread. I address what I want to address. Also they way your response (what you just said to me) seems to be trying to ellicit an argument/personal response as well. That is my observation.
Also if you see a discussion as an argument, you really need to take another look. As long as people write in a way that is nice and kind, I typically respond in the same fashion. If not...well, I don't ssee why I have to waste my time on that. I have much more important things to spend my time on arguing (note that discussion =/= arguing) when people have already drawn their lines in the sand.
At this point it's not even a discussion with some of the users here. So I'm not going to bother with this journal anymore. I am typically a nice person, but some of the responses here are just black holes of good emotion. Or, not very well thought out and perhaps, intentionally or unintentionally, rude.
Hence, I was trying to add my opinion and personal experience to add perspective. I never said that ALL rescue horses are like that, and people are welcome to disagree. But I am already under tons of stress IRL. I was trying to share my view because it's a free county.
Also, I suggest you look at my responses. For example one of the reasons you think I am so called "nit picking" is because I do not have much time to post in the first place. I write what I can and respond with what I can. But I do not address something that would cause more strife on my part and only the MAIN points I am trying to address. Not every little thing under the sun.
The journal writer can express her opinion. I am disagreeing with it. I've said my peace, just like everyone else, and I think it's time for everyone to move on. Including me.
Okay, dude. You are making this waaaay too personal. This whole thing has nothing to do with your friend dying or your irl stress. I'm sure they both suck big time for you but bringing them into this argument only distracts from the main issue and it looks like you're trying to use them as scapegoats for not being able to word your opinion the way you want. This debate/argument/whatever you want to call it, it's very polarising. That's what happens when money is involved. There isn't much room for changing other people's opinions and we've just gotta accept that.
Just to clarify, I think you've missed the point of the journal: it was pointing out that someone who has the expendable income to throw $500 at a horse design might want to think about throwing it at something else more worthwhile. If a person has the spare cash lying around to spend $500 on a horse design, I'm sure they'd have the money to pay for the associative costs of owning an actual horse. I think its safe to say we're all horse lovers here, and are no strangers to the costs of owning horses, even if we have not personally experienced them first hand.
LyrebirdBlueFeatured By OwnerDec 31, 2012Hobbyist Digital Artist
I think you're missing the point regarding: who are you all to tell someone how to spend their money, which they rightfully earned? You wouldn't go tell someone not to buy that luxury car, would you? Or that designer handbag? To ME, those are worthless things to spend a large amount of money on, but it is not MY money and I'M not the one spending it.
Therefore, my opinion on people buying these things with their money is moot, and not only that but it's downright rude for people to flame others for what they decide to buy, or even just tell them they're wasting their money. It's not your place or your business and if you acted like this in real life you'd probably get a good reality check from the recipient.
I'm not telling anyone anything, I'm suggesting that in my opinion that amount of money should never be spent on something like a design, and I've listed my reasons why. I agree with the other options Fox has offered as alternative suggestions as a better place to put one's money in my opinion. I'm not flaming anyone, I'm not sending them hate mail, I'm respectfully disagreeing with their views on the valuation of a design and offering my opinion as food for thought, as I am welcome to do in the open forum that is the world wide web. Regardless of the fact that my opinion appears to be shared by the population and community at large.
LyrebirdBlueFeatured By OwnerDec 31, 2012Hobbyist Digital Artist
I'm sorry but I can't support such condescending opinions. It's insulting to tell someone that what they want to spend their hard earned money on is a waste of money, stupid, ridiculous, insane etc. It's a personal choice and I don't think anyone here has the right to tell anyone how dumb it might be to them. That's all I'm saying. We're all entitled to opinions but there are some occassions where it's just not RIGHT to voice them.
No one in this entire comment section has said "You need to buy this before you spend that much money on that." People have suggested alternatives they feel are more appropriate, they have put their opinion out there which will ALWAYS happen whenever ANYONE makes their financial decisions public. Everyone has the right to voice their opinion and they are exercising that right on this issue. And frankly, I hope you can see the hypocrisy of telling others what they should and shouldn't say about this.
LyrebirdBlueFeatured By OwnerJan 1, 2013Hobbyist Digital Artist
I can't argue with you guys, honestly. Commenting on someone else's 'financial decisions' is to me just wrong, and yes it was done in the manner of flaming/a witch hunt as I am used to seeing on the internet. I myself have only said it is their choice and it doesn't bother me -- I have not commented on whether they are right or wrong or stupid or wise for spending their money in this way.
Just, nevermind. It seems like basic respect for others really doesn't exist anymore.
No, you haven't. But you have consistently stated you think "It's insulting to tell someone that what they want to spend their hard earned money on is a waste of money..." I personally think it's insulting to tell people what they should and shouldn't say. Basic respect would be letting people voice their opinions without telling them they should feel bad for having them. Just think about that the next time you get into an argument online.
And I'm hardly denying or telling them anything. Did you read my previous comment? I have every right to voice my opinion on the matter as you do. The modern world is full of conflicting opinions, and people often voice their own opinions to make others aware of other sides to every argument. Perhaps people hadn't considered the other options listed in the journal. No were does it say people aren't allowed to spend their money, the journal suggests they shouldn't. They're very different things: one might suggest we shouldn't go to war, it doesn't mean people don't.